Dangers in Jacking up RCZ

stagger321 wrote:

Hi all,

I have been asked about this - so for clarity.
Although there currently isn't a 'Team' in place to take further action with Peugeot at this point, I will take the task to collate responses from any members who have experienced jacking point failures in the past.

As above the data should be PM'd to me - and for consistency the format should be:

Registered owner of vehicle
VIN number
Car and Model
Date of registration
Date when damage occurred/observed
Mileage when damage occurred (if known)
Damage occurred at: dealer/tyre-fitter/home/etc
Type of Jack/Lift used
Fixed under warranty y/n
Cost of repair (if known)
Damage acknowledged by dealer
Peugeot UK claim number if appropriate
Additional comments

I have already got a couple of responses, so please keep them coming. Its for the good of you all.

Hi Mods.
As DKZ5745 suggested above, can you please make this a sticky.
Thanks

stagger321 wrote:

@RCZ-R Most of is are very aware or the procedure, and many here I know have jacked the car without issue...........until, as Peter says, their jacking point goes. Don't forget my issues happened at a dealer, the last place it should happen as they have all the 'official' lifting gear.

got it, mate. wish you all luck with the claim

A merry xmas to all my readers

stagger321 wrote:

stagger321 wrote:

Hi all,

I have been asked about this - so for clarity.
Although there currently isn't a 'Team' in place to take further action with Peugeot at this point, I will take the task to collate responses from any members who have experienced jacking point failures in the past.

As above the data should be PM'd to me - and for consistency the format should be:

Registered owner of vehicle
VIN number
Car and Model
Date of registration
Date when damage occurred/observed
Mileage when damage occurred (if known)
Damage occurred at: dealer/tyre-fitter/home/etc
Type of Jack/Lift used
Fixed under warranty y/n
Cost of repair (if known)
Damage acknowledged by dealer
Peugeot UK claim number if appropriate
Additional comments

I have already got a couple of responses, so please keep them coming. Its for the good of you all.

Hi Mods.
As DKZ5745 suggested above, can you please make this a sticky.
Thanks

OK, so it seems I am wasting my time here.

Many thanks to the couple of owners who responded here, but lets be honest 2 or 3 owners is going to make absolutely no difference to Peugeot. They will probably laugh at this level of response.

TBH, I was not expecting the outcome of any claim to be a recall of our cars and a redesign/refit of the jacking point. That's never going to happen.
What I was hoping for was better official Peugeot lifting and jacking advice to address a clear (to me, as a qualified mechanical engineer) design fault, i.e a Manufacturer approved workaround.
As has been seen with the recent BBC Watchdog case with Fiat 500 hill climbing abilities people power can force the hand of a car manufacturer in denial, but it needs sufficient pressure from owners.

Its clear to me now that RCZ1 was right in his post of 17th Dec http://www.peugeotrczforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=6328&start=220#p109761 when he said "It is almost doomed before it begins but I'm prepared to eat my words" You don't need to eat your words. The apparent apathy here has saved you from that feast mate.

To say I am disappointed by the response is obvious, but to be honest I am more surprised than anything, given the number of owners who have already experienced this issue. There are probably loads more who, (due the low slung nature of the car) have absolutely no idea that they already have this issue, and there are others who will suffer this issue in the future.
Anyway - I'll step off the soapbox now.

Thanks for trying anyway.

Maybe this can be revisited at some point in the future.

As a footnote:
Out of curiosity, and due to the urban myth that you can't buy a jack for the RCZ, I tried to do just that.
To my surprise I was able to place an order and picked up the item today. £35quid
I made the parts guy double check my VIN against the jack as I was surprised by the "C" shaped cup at the engagement point of the jack. Didn't seem to provide much in the way of lateral support.
Nevertheless, I bought it, not because I like using these types of jacks, but because it is the official jack for the car, so if I use it (if tyrewall has ripped for instance and the pump sealant won't suffice) and a jacking point fails again then I will point out I used the recommended jack, as sold by my dealer, and as listed on the Peugeot Parts dept pages.
So its an insurance policy more than anything.

[Abzynthe]

I wouldnt use it. Pug will probably say you didnt use it properly if theres any damage.

Then I would say it's their responsibility to design tools that any reasonably competent person could use without a PhD in Mechanical Engineering. Their customers come from all walks of life, all ages, all genders, worldwide and all sizes. They know this full well and, if they're going to design anything, particularly something ubiquitous as a jack (which I bet is used across several models), it should be fit for purpose, including instructions on how to use it.

There is a design technique called Poke Yoce, which has been around for decades. It means mistake-proofing, i.e it's designed so you can't get it wrong. Exactly the kind of principle that should be applied here.

Abzynthe wrote:

I wouldnt use it. Pug will probably say you didnt use it properly if theres any damage.

Mate, if they did that I'd come down on them like a ton of bricks.
Pete's point is spot on.
The jack was supplied as is with no instructions. However page 161 of the owners manual provides the official guidance.
To take Pete's point about not needing a PhD, well I only have a Mechanical Engineering degree, so without these "clear" instructions I would clearly be on shaky ground using the jack.

Ahhh, you see that's where they will get you, using the Jack on shaky ground

If I were in that position I'd issue proceedings in the small claims court under the Sale of Goods Act - not fit for purpose, which was eithe:

A) described in the accompanying handbook, page

B) required purpose described at the point of purchasing the jack - "I want a jack to lift my RCZ up should I need to change a wheel" (I would point out spare wheel kits have been advertised for RCZs, I have a flyer for said kit, which I picked up at a Pinley House meet a couple of years ago).

DKZ5745 wrote:

Ahhh, you see that's where they will get you, using the Jack on shaky ground

After I wrote this - I kinda knew this was coming

pete.garratt wrote:

If I were in that position I'd issue proceedings in the small claims court under the Sale of Goods Act - not fit for purpose, which was eithe:

A) described in the accompanying handbook, page

B) required purpose described at the point of purchasing the jack - "I want a jack to lift my RCZ up should I need to change a wheel" (I would point out spare wheel kits have been advertised for RCZs, I have a flyer for said kit, which I picked up at a Pinley House meet a couple of years ago).

A Pinley House meet..........now there's a thought.
Anyone game for this?
Would they let us in the gate??

BTW, its just down the road from where I work - so I would in all likelihood be a definite attendee.
We could compare jacking points in the car park.

This is how you lift an RCZ safely


As you can see they have plenty of experience with the RCZ

frankvdb wrote:

This is how you lift an RCZ safely


As you can see they have plenty of experience with the RCZ

I like the white one best.(just have to carry round a Puegeot dealer hoist in the boot).

You wait all day for an RCZ, then 3 come along all at once

I've always used a trolley jack to jack up my previous cars.

Am I save using it on my Rczs ?

It's the ONLY safe way of jacking up your Z. Just don't use it on the jacking points, go for the cross members & suspension mounting points.

Depends where you use it.

Some have used a small adaptor - either a disk of aluminium or an ice hockey puck - with a slot cut in it. This is used to support the cill jacking point, to minimise the chance of it folding over. Some people have experienced this, even with using such an adaptor.

Others have jacked under the front sub frame or rear axle tube. Care needs to be taken not to distort the rear axle tube, so it's probably better not to jack in the centre (there is a warning label fixed to the tube, telling you not to jack there), just near the ends. For the front, clearance is an issue, so low profile jacks may be useful, as is driving the front wheels onto some blocks, to increase ground clearance.

To the best of my knowledge, use of 4 post lifts does not cause jacking point damage.

Equally, some people have used a standard scissors jack without issues.

Others think they've just been very, very lucky to get away with it.

Of course, according to Peugeot, there is absolutely nothing wrong with jacking the Z up with the correct scissors jack on the jacking points, but try going to them with your wrecked sills when you have done exactly as advised and see what happens when you ask them to pay for the repairs...............

I use a low profile trolley Jack I got from Halfords, I have a hockey puck, but I use it as a cushion between the metal Jack head and the car, rather than a device for the jacking points.

As Pete said, just driving onto something to give you more clearance would make it easier to use a standard trolley Jack.

Always chock the wheels on the opposite side of the car to the side your lifting to minimise the chance of movement, and it is advisable to use axle stands if doing anything involving having the car jacked for any length of time.

The four point lift used at garages doesn't involve the jacking points, so that is of course the safest way to get access to your car, but unfortunately most of us don't have access to this kind of lift.