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Dangers in Jacking up RCZ

inc spare tyres & tyre pressure

Post Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:24 pm
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tianorth wrote:
stagger321 wrote:
The lifting points, of which those pads you mention are for the front of the car, are for use with the recommended two post/4 point lifts that all Pug service centres use, and should only be used for taking the entire weight of the car according to him
This was a guy who worked at a college educating mechanics and had seen many hundreds of incorrectly jacked cars. He's the first guy I had spoken to who actually gave me confidence that he knew what he was talking about, when it came to this issue.


The tech at my dealership said the only place to lift the vehicle at the rear is by the rear jacking points.

So how do you lift using a 2 or 4 post lift without using the jacking points?

If they can take the weight of the full car, shorly they can take a quarter of the weight of the vehicle.

To be fair I did not have long enough with the guy to discuss the rears, but this is the issue isn't it. Cars are lifted on all 4 jacking points, cars are lifted not using any of the jacking points. Who knows, maybe a mixture of the two.
It's totally bonkers that different dealers do different things. How is it possible that dealers can do different things, and what the hell do we do should we want our tyres changed at any place other than a dealer.
They are not allowed to force a dealer service on you, you should be able to get your car serviced anywhere without it affecting your warranty. Yet how is this possible?
Cheers

Stagger

----------------------------------------------------------
RCZ 'R' : 2014 - Mercury Grey
Triumph Stag : 1974 - White - Original Triumph V8
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Post Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:17 pm
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stagger321 wrote:
DKZ5745 wrote:
I do think that if all the members who have had issues with this particular fault could be contacted via this forum and organised into a single representation to Peugeot, it might possibly have some success. Individual attempts all seem to fail through one excuse or another on Peugeots part.

I think the problem is that undoubtably some mistakes have been made by owners/garages when jacking up their cars, which of course fuels Peugeots argument that it's not their fault. But I am absolutely certain that there is a design fault which needs to be addressed, but that can't happen until Peugeot acknowledge that the fault exists.

It doesn't matter how many people contact them individually, one single mass complaint would always be more effective, but that would take some considerable organising.

I suppose if anywhere, this forum is the place to do that.

Perhaps a moderator who has had this issue could get involved in trying to contact all members concerned.....

DKZ - I totally agree.
Up to this point I have largely kept stum about how my repairs were going as I didn't want anything to jinx things.
Now I have a repaired car.
A car that very soon (in less than 2k miles) will need its first 12.5K/1yr service, and at some point after that a new set of tyres.
This is an issue that will affect us all - unless we are in the fortunate position to change our new cars every 12 months - an unlikely luxury for most of us I would say.
I'm glad you proposed this, and I absolutely want to be involved in getting this sorted. I think that the more of us get involved the better.
I have, while trying to get my issue resolved, been told by both dealers and Pug UK that this a 'new' issue - "Oh, never seen this before sir, its a new one on us". Clearly that is rubbish. Just read this forum thread.

So mods - how do we move forward here?
Dealers are blaming the customer or the Manufacturer, and the Manufacturer is blaming the dealers or the customer.
In most cases the customer ends up without a leg, or rather jacking point, to stand on.
We have a fundamental issue that could affect all owners at some point or other, yet the dealership chain and the Manufacturers are in complete denial about the issue. How do we progress things?

Hi Abzynthe, Evil Derboy, mrizzle

Re the thread above and the bold bits, how do we move this forward. Can it be handled by concerted pressure from this forum.
We have a fundamental issue that is likely to affect many owners, some of whom probably don't even know that they already have this issue. It needs addressing by Peugeot UK, for the good of us all.

Ta
Cheers

Stagger

----------------------------------------------------------
RCZ 'R' : 2014 - Mercury Grey
Triumph Stag : 1974 - White - Original Triumph V8
----------------------------------------------------------

Post Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:30 pm
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stagger321 wrote:
stagger321 wrote:
DKZ5745 wrote:
I do think that if all the members who have had issues with this particular fault could be contacted via this forum and organised into a single representation to Peugeot, it might possibly have some success. Individual attempts all seem to fail through one excuse or another on Peugeots part.

I think the problem is that undoubtably some mistakes have been made by owners/garages when jacking up their cars, which of course fuels Peugeots argument that it's not their fault. But I am absolutely certain that there is a design fault which needs to be addressed, but that can't happen until Peugeot acknowledge that the fault exists.

It doesn't matter how many people contact them individually, one single mass complaint would always be more effective, but that would take some considerable organising.

I suppose if anywhere, this forum is the place to do that.

Perhaps a moderator who has had this issue could get involved in trying to contact all members concerned.....

DKZ - I totally agree.
Up to this point I have largely kept stum about how my repairs were going as I didn't want anything to jinx things.
i believe i raised this entire issue some time back.But with some hostility towards me at the time,it remained on the back boiler.
Now I have a repaired car.
A car that very soon (in less than 2k miles) will need its first 12.5K/1yr service, and at some point after that a new set of tyres.
This is an issue that will affect us all - unless we are in the fortunate position to change our new cars every 12 months - an unlikely luxury for most of us I would say.
I'm glad you proposed this, and I absolutely want to be involved in getting this sorted. I think that the more of us get involved the better.
I have, while trying to get my issue resolved, been told by both dealers and Pug UK that this a 'new' issue - "Oh, never seen this before sir, its a new one on us". Clearly that is rubbish. Just read this forum thread.

So mods - how do we move forward here?
Dealers are blaming the customer or the Manufacturer, and the Manufacturer is blaming the dealers or the customer.
In most cases the customer ends up without a leg, or rather jacking point, to stand on.
We have a fundamental issue that could affect all owners at some point or other, yet the dealership chain and the Manufacturers are in complete denial about the issue. How do we progress things?

Hi Abzynthe, Evil Derboy, mrizzle

Re the thread above and the bold bits, how do we move this forward. Can it be handled by concerted pressure from this forum.
We have a fundamental issue that is likely to affect many owners, some of whom probably don't even know that they already have this issue. It needs addressing by Peugeot UK, for the good of us all.

Ta
Despite three temporary bans and various warnings, I continued to behave like a dick and got banned permanently.

Post Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:43 pm
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Lets do this forumites....i made this point previously,but seemed to get lost in the cloud of hostility directed towards me. :?
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Post Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:11 pm
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I think the idea of taking this forward as a Group rather than individually is a good idea and should hopefully carry more clout.

In my opinion it does not require the Mods to take this forward. The Forum is not affiliated to Peugeot therefore it would only require a member(s) willing to take a lead on this.

This is a problem which affects every single RCZ owner therefore an idea out of the top of my head would be to set up a "Register" thread where members would post details of the problems they have experienced with the jacking points (preferably backed up with photos wherever possible). This should be kept free of discussion (have a separate thread for that and I'm sure the Mods could move any discussion posts from the "Register" thread accordingly).

An example Register thread (which can be copy and pasted):

Car and Model
Mileage
Type of Jack used
Fixed under warranty
Cost of repair
Damage acknowledged by dealer

All the information from the "Register" thread could then be printed off and collated and sent to Peugeot UK? with a full and descriptive letter outlining the problems that have been experienced with the jacking points and requesting / demanding that Peugeot
a) acknowledge that there is a problem with the jacking points and
b) resolve to find a solution to improve the jacking points
Anyone who is any good at putting a letter of this form together - please shout out, and it could be posted on here for comment and amendment if necessary.

It may also be worthwhile getting in touch with BBC Watchdog to add more clout to the argument.

Please feel free to add to this idea or bring your own to the table.
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RCZ Sport 156 in Pearl White Bespoke Nappa leather interior with RCZ motif
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Post Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:57 am
stagger321 User avatar

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RCZ1 wrote:
I think the idea of taking this forward as a Group rather than individually is a good idea and should hopefully carry more clout.

In my opinion it does not require the Mods to take this forward. The Forum is not affiliated to Peugeot therefore it would only require a member(s) willing to take a lead on this.

This is a problem which affects every single RCZ owner therefore an idea out of the top of my head would be to set up a "Register" thread where members would post details of the problems they have experienced with the jacking points (preferably backed up with photos wherever possible). This should be kept free of discussion (have a separate thread for that and I'm sure the Mods could move any discussion posts from the "Register" thread accordingly).

An example Register thread (which can be copy and pasted):

Car and Model
Mileage
Type of Jack used
Fixed under warranty
Cost of repair
Damage acknowledged by dealer

All the information from the "Register" thread could then be printed off and collated and sent to Peugeot UK? with a full and descriptive letter outlining the problems that have been experienced with the jacking points and requesting / demanding that Peugeot
a) acknowledge that there is a problem with the jacking points and
b) resolve to find a solution to improve the jacking points
Anyone who is any good at putting a letter of this form together - please shout out, and it could be posted on here for comment and amendment if necessary.

It may also be worthwhile getting in touch with BBC Watchdog to add more clout to the argument.

Please feel free to add to this idea or bring your own to the table.

Hi RCZ1,

I don't think the Mods have to OWN this issue, but I think they can help here, and at this point I was just looking for assistance in collecting some of the info. Sure we can all search the forums to see who has been affected, but there may be easier ways that the mods can assist with this.
One thing is for sure, Peugeot work off names and VIN numbers - when it comes to complaints. I know this from experience.
So unfortunately these will have to be collated before any letter/email is sent to them.
As there is some anonymity on this forum where that kind of personal/private info is not generally put out in the public domain, this info needs to be protected and not distributed across the forum.
Walls have ears, so they say, and you can be sure as eggs is eggs that Pug UK and the dealer chain will be surfing this forum, if not trying to influence things now and then.

Once we have a response from Pug UK and we have an open case with them I'm sure a lot more (non personal/private) info can be shared here, and other fellow brothers and sisters can get on the revolutionary band wagon.
After all it affects us all - so we need to excerpt as much pressure as possible.
So at this early stage I really feel we need as much hard evidence collated from those who have actually had this issue rather than those who are undoubtedly going to be affected from it (i.e. potentially worst case - all of us)

So if I can change your list thus:
Registered owner of vehicle
VIN number
Car and Model
Date of registration
Date when damage occurred/observed
Mileage when damage occurred (if known)
Damage occurred at: dealer/tyre-fitter/home/etc
Type of Jack/Lift used
Fixed under warranty y/n
Cost of repair (if known)
Damage acknowledged by dealer
Peugeot UK claim number if appropriate
Additional comments

I am happy to collate this info (via google doc or whatever), but I need a full list of forum members who have previously reported this issue so we can get the ball rolling.
I will also need someone to do the wordy stuff for the letter to Pug UK..
Watchdog may get involved once we have the official response from Peugeot.

To re-iterate - none of the personal/private collated info I list above will be shared in the public domain - just with the 'team' collating the info/dealing with the Pug UK case, and probably with the mods.
Cheers

Stagger

----------------------------------------------------------
RCZ 'R' : 2014 - Mercury Grey
Triumph Stag : 1974 - White - Original Triumph V8
----------------------------------------------------------

Post Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:57 pm
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Stagger, I hear what you say but being an ex Mod of this forum I can say that there isn't a means that the Mods can obtain / store this info any different to you or I. If you prefer to keep this info private then the only way I can see to do this is for members to PM the information to someone who is going to collate it. Be that you or someone else. As I said in my first post, all this info will need to be collated and attached to any letter that is sent to Peugeot.

I didn't for one minute expect anyone to to go through past threads to find out this info. What I said was that members who want to raise their objections / concerns / disapproval at the jacking points would have to commence PMing their details to the person who is going to collate them.

I personally don't see why you insist that the Mods need to be involved but that would be up to you.

Good luck with this task. It's one I don't envy you.
Mk 2 Sport 156 Moroccan Red Bespoke Nappa leather
Black Roof Arches Sports Pack Sat Nav K&N Filter Philips Diamond Vision lights


RCZ Sport 156 in Pearl White Bespoke Nappa leather interior with RCZ motif
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Post Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:19 pm
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RCZ1 wrote:
Stagger, I hear what you say but being an ex Mod of this forum I can say that there isn't a means that the Mods can obtain / store this info any different to you or I. If you prefer to keep this info private then the only way I can see to do this is for members to PM the information to someone who is going to collate it. Be that you or someone else. As I said in my first post, all this info will need to be collated and attached to any letter that is sent to Peugeot.

I didn't for one minute expect anyone to to go through past threads to find out this info. What I said was that members who want to raise their objections / concerns / disapproval at the jacking points would have to commence PMing their details to the person who is going to collate them.

I personally don't see why you insist that the Mods need to be involved but that would be up to you.

Good luck with this task. It's one I don't envy you.

OK RCZ1 - so let me go through your points

So wrt the first point, if there isn't an easier way to get the data for the 'affected' - then fine, a forum search it must be.

Secondly, WRT keeping things private, Peugeot will only work off names and VIN numbers to my knowledge - if there's someone that knows different then please share that with us. Therefore, yes I was assuming this would be handled via PM's at this stage.

If I gave the impression that I was insisting on the Mods act here, that was NOT my intention. What I am after is help, and it seemed a sensible place to start to ask the mods for help here, after all there's a pretty good chance they are independent of Peugeot (not spies) and also, when it comes to collating of info quicker, if they have direct access to the forum database. I hoped there would be a short-cut here. If there isn't, then as I said above, fine.

When it comes to "Good luck with this task, It's one I don't envy you" well thanks, but let me be clear here, in no way am I taking on this task on my own. I will do part of the work if its required, but I have enough baggage to home/work to keep me occupied. If no-one else wants to get involved in fixing this fundamental issue, or at least having a good stab at fixing it, then I just walk away.
Cheers

Stagger

----------------------------------------------------------
RCZ 'R' : 2014 - Mercury Grey
Triumph Stag : 1974 - White - Original Triumph V8
----------------------------------------------------------

Post Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:54 pm
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Stagger, I'm in total agreement with you about this issue however throughout the time I have been on this forum, since its inception, there are very few people who are willing to take on responsibilities / tasks / organisation of anything. This is not a slight on anyone merely an observation borne out of my experiences here. Yes we all have responsibilities at home / work but someone (or more people) has to bite the bullet and be prepared to take this (or for that matter anything) on. Hence my comment "good luck with this". It is almost doomed before it begins but I'm prepared to eat my words.
Mk 2 Sport 156 Moroccan Red Bespoke Nappa leather
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RCZ Sport 156 in Pearl White Bespoke Nappa leather interior with RCZ motif
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Post Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:12 pm
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RCZ1 wrote:
Stagger, I'm in total agreement with you about this issue however throughout the time I have been on this forum, since its inception, there are very few people who are willing to take on responsibilities / tasks / organisation of anything. This is not a slight on anyone merely an observation borne out of my experiences here. Yes we all have responsibilities at home / work but someone (or more people) has to bite the bullet and be prepared to take this (or for that matter anything) on. Hence my comment "good luck with this". It is almost doomed before it begins but I'm prepared to eat my words.

Maybe you're right mate.
There's not exactly been a stampede so far. Maybe apathy does rule after all. :?
We will see.
Cheers

Stagger

----------------------------------------------------------
RCZ 'R' : 2014 - Mercury Grey
Triumph Stag : 1974 - White - Original Triumph V8
----------------------------------------------------------

Post Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:37 pm
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Now it all comes down to if your car is affected as such..mine isnt so i cant complain to peugeot as such.I have had no reason to take the wheels off re puncture etc.. not that i could as i havent got a jack,just a tin of air like we all have.I am alarmed though that members point to a common fault here. It looks like that some folk have suffered, and next time it could be you.
Time we as a group found out what this is all about??? :(
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Post Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:38 pm
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So who do we send our pm's to? :D
Tia2 is a 2013 RCZ Magnetic in Black with a 2litre diesel engine
Upgraded Peugeot sat-nav now has 7 digit postcode, safety alerts and updated maps
Other mods include door catch covers, rcz puddle lights, quad exhaust tips
Tia3 is a 2015 RCZ-R in Mercury Grey with a 1.6litre petrol engine, oh and 270 bhp
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Both have dash cams front and back

Post Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:45 pm
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Pms? I dont think its a jocular matter in any way.
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Post Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:04 pm
stagger321 User avatar

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tianorth wrote:
So who do we send our pm's to? :D

Hi tianorth. :wave:
Thanks for the question.
For now send them to me.
Obviously time, and participants enthusiasm for action, will dictate just how far this goes - as per my last point in my previous post (and RCZ1's cautionary note).
Cheers

Stagger

----------------------------------------------------------
RCZ 'R' : 2014 - Mercury Grey
Triumph Stag : 1974 - White - Original Triumph V8
----------------------------------------------------------

Post Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:56 pm
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Hi all,

I have been asked about this - so for clarity.
Although there currently isn't a 'Team' in place to take further action with Peugeot at this point, I will take the task to collate responses from any members who have experienced jacking point failures in the past.

As above the data should be PM'd to me - and for consistency the format should be:

Registered owner of vehicle
VIN number
Car and Model
Date of registration
Date when damage occurred/observed
Mileage when damage occurred (if known)
Damage occurred at: dealer/tyre-fitter/home/etc
Type of Jack/Lift used
Fixed under warranty y/n
Cost of repair (if known)
Damage acknowledged by dealer
Peugeot UK claim number if appropriate
Additional comments


I have already got a couple of responses, so please keep them coming. Its for the good of you all.
Cheers

Stagger

----------------------------------------------------------
RCZ 'R' : 2014 - Mercury Grey
Triumph Stag : 1974 - White - Original Triumph V8
----------------------------------------------------------

Post Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:26 pm
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Just a though how the mods could help, can they make this thread sticky and perhaps a bit more prominent? Might help :eusa-think:
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Post Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:38 pm
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I think the main issue is of course folk who have been actually affected by this, and a list drawn accordingly.But also folk who are owners and concerned that it is a design fault and is inevitably going to happen to them.Thats wear the forum can help.It looks like the old.. you did not use a main dealer so it is your fault. Same for servicing. How many folk buy tyres for example from a main dealer?Time for all to stand up and be counted. :eusa-think:
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Post Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:13 am
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I don't know if I'm going to contribute here in a proper way, as what I can sense here is a moment of frustration. But maybe I can give some "hope" to other RCZ users and potential buyers. What am I talking about? I have been jacking up my RCZ several times before and never ever had any issues.
Attached some pictures from a recent job on my RCZ R. :greetings-wavingblue:
Attachments
IMG_20141220_161822.jpg
IMG_20141220_161822.jpg (123.14 KiB) Viewed 2026 times
IMG_20141220_161910.jpg
IMG_20141220_161910.jpg (112.53 KiB) Viewed 2026 times
RCZ R in red. driven daily. and driven hard.
Dyno results here: http://www.peugeotrczforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=10118

Post Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:23 am
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Yes, I jacked my previous GT200 up 'many times' without issue, too.

Then it happened to me.

I now use one of the famous jacking aids.
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Post Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:02 pm
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@RCZ-R Most of is are very aware or the procedure, and many here I know have jacked the car without issue...........until, as Peter says, their jacking point goes. Don't forget my issues happened at a dealer, the last place it should happen as they have all the 'official' lifting gear.
Cheers

Stagger

----------------------------------------------------------
RCZ 'R' : 2014 - Mercury Grey
Triumph Stag : 1974 - White - Original Triumph V8
----------------------------------------------------------

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